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Post by chrisreeves on Sept 9, 2016 19:48:22 GMT
just a couple of observations here
I have no idea to what Dorset Blue is referring when he attributes comments from me to a Councillor.I totally accept he is only repeating what he has been told but I would never have said such things and there is no way that there is any approach to me by any Councillor or anyone else for that matter re the Club's future that I would ever leave unanswered. If any Councillor thinks otherwise then please please let him or her get in touch We have been working very hard re the planning application and I believe that a recent meeting I had with the Transport Officer and Planning Officer has completely turned them round.The Transport guy has just filed a report changing his stance completely and now supporting us.The best support we can have is for anyone who hasn't posted a message of support on the PBC website re our application to do so. There is a lot going on but we can't go public- history tells that is the death knell. There are significant reasons why each false dawn has been a false dawn.if we were all on a twelve hour train journey with nothing else to do I could tell the whole story. One thing though- I will never give up! It is 32 years since the old Speedway Company went bust and we lost the right to play at the ground we built in the thirties- and as a very young Chairman I started to fight for our future.Speedway didn't arrive until 1949. I stood down to let Derek Block take us into the Football League as he said he would-- he instead oversaw the Club being liquidated which is when I came back. To be at NLS level now progressing from Haskells Rec is awesome. We still have battles ahead- I don't want this journey to finish. I welcome any supporters views but this problem is one lived with 24/7 and every conceivable answer is analysed to death I can assure you all.
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Post by dorsetblue on Sept 9, 2016 21:14:43 GMT
One thing is for sure I'm not questioning you Chris you are Poole Town FC and that cannot be questioned.
I'm just miffed that the council seem to be not on-side and I'm really annoyed about the SOPM objecting twice on the planning application at the Tatnam.
On the plus side it seems if we take away the confusion we have a political party locally who support us returning to the stadium and all avenues and working together should be looked upon to make this achievable.
Afterall isn't League football at Poole Stadium our No1 priority.
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Post by Jack Tanner on Sept 9, 2016 22:12:10 GMT
Afterall isn't League football at Poole Stadium our No1 priority.
No, ensuring we have a club is our No.1 priority. No point chucking money at something if the net result is no club.
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Post by expat on Sept 9, 2016 23:07:33 GMT
Jack
We ARE eventually going back to the Stadium, with our club; in fact when you've lived as long as I have you are aware that it is OUR club, OUR history,OUR heritage and,like AFC Wimbledon, we are not going to be denied' please tell us your arguments against a revitalised Stadium without, at least,the dogs It is a Football League #1 location with run down facilities. And all deference to you Chris, but lets get this stuff out in the open. Too much "I can't tell you or Ill have to shoot you" When we get the Stadium the money will follow, nobody is going to invest in pipe dreams like Bearwood,Branksome Rec and other mythical locations
Can someone get some red and white shirts printed up with the PTFC and Borough of Poole Crest together and the logo
HELP US GO HOME
sell 'em on Ashley Rd,the High Street, The Dolphin Centre wherever..its a movement and they will sell!1
UP THE TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWN!!!
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Post by Jack Tanner on Sept 10, 2016 1:24:47 GMT
Jack We ARE eventually going back to the Stadium, with our club; in fact when you've lived as long as I have you are aware that it is OUR club, OUR history,OUR heritage and,like AFC Wimbledon, we are not going to be denied' please tell us your arguments against a revitalised Stadium without, at least,the dogs It is a Football League #1 location with run down facilities. And all deference to you Chris, but lets get this stuff out in the open. Too much "I can't tell you or Ill have to shoot you" When we get the Stadium the money will follow, nobody is going to invest in pipe dreams like Bearwood,Branksome Rec and other mythical locations Can someone get some red and white shirts printed up with the PTFC and Borough of Poole Crest together and the logo HELP US GO HOME sell 'em on Ashley Rd,the High Street, The Dolphin Centre wherever..its a movement and they will sell!1 UP THE TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWN!!! Biggest argument is funding. Tell me how are you funding it? Speedway team aren't going to sell it on the cheap for sentimental reasons. Then you have to get it all up to National League standards, which we are pouring money into Tatnam to ensure. It won't happen overnight at the Stadium. It's not a "just add football team for instant success" scenario. The Speedway team would dig their heels in deep if there was any threat of them moving. Football stadiums are hard to fit in the Borough, so where would a new speedway stadium go? If we're naive and presume that Speedway is a dying sport and will be gone in X amount of years (NB, Poole's Speedway has a bigger fan base than us, so any "death" of the sport will be long and drawn out) the first in line for the Council's consideration would be housing developments to address the need for housing, which, despite how dear we all hold the club to our hearts, should trump any other "community beneficial scheme". The rich around Poole stay rich by making sound financial decisions - wasting potentially millions on a club without a proper ground would be financially suicidal. Hope and wish for a rich investor to pop out of the Sandbanks woodwork but it isn't likely. The Stadium is no where near "Football League with a few rundown parts." It's a speedway stadium, built to cater for an entirely different sport. The glass grandstand is not a football stand - and if the stadium were to be ours again, it would waste precious space. It's a corporate facility pretty much, with awful views of the actual pitch. The view does play a factor - most people don't like watching football across a track. To remove it would be costly, and another thing to stick on top of the spending list. (Again, how are you paying for this?) I'd wager some floating fans would be turned off by the idea of being so far from the action, but I imagine some floating fans stay away from Tatnam due to it's unaesthetically pleasing looks. How many League clubs have an track in the way? Only West Ham, who gladly accepted that burden because they got a near completely paid for stadium. I believe the other stand is just standing/terraced or it might have wooden benches. (Someone please correct me if I am wrong, it's been years since my last visit.) Every ground we've been to has had plastic seats of some variety - Ebbsfleet have wooden benches with plastic seats upon. It might not be a requirement (plastic seats) but the 250 seats are. (500 if we harbour intentions of at least a play off finish.) Again, it really adds up. Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but the slightly "Minor" changes at Tatnam are costing around £60,000-£70,000. This stuff really does not come cheap. We'll take Burton Albion as an example - Similar start as us before their rise up the divisions. After spending around £1million to ensure their ground was Conference -grade, they eventually bit the bullet. £7.2 million for "just" a 6,912 capacity, with only around 2000 of that seated. They lucked out a bit and drew Manchester United in the cup to help pay off the debts quicker, but that barely scratched the surface of it. They didn't even have to pay for the land, in turn losing out on another source of income via sponsorship. The money certainly isn't flowing at Burton, and Poole would be most likely in some sort of debt to finance a move (sound financial move that.) Whilst I accept a little bit of debt for a club can even be construed as healthy, the strain a move like that would put on the club would most likely see a noticable effect on the playing budget, which is arguably more vital than a ground. Lose enough players, and lose enough games, then the stadium move becomes more and more futile. Your calls for everything to be in the open is ridiculous. That is not how the world works. I'm more than happy to be kept in the dark if it means we have experienced people handling negotiations. A brash approach to things helps nothing - you just garner a reputation for being rude, selfish, all big flaws that can be used to construct a convincing argument against the club. Patience is key. There is no point negotiations start on a new sight, Chris rushing back to the forum and spilling all the beans, telling us how this the one and our ground issue is over. It builds false hope, and slowly, a disconnected supporters base. You may say that this is the case for all the other false dawns, but they were all had concrete evidence behind them. We may never know how many sites have initial talks that go well, but soon die off completely for factors outside anyone's control. I'd love for Poole to be a League club - and as long as we play within in the Borough boundaries, that should be the main thing? What's the point to hanging onto a dream that has only caused us hurt and would be bound to hurt our wallet further down the line? Clubs are now moving to the outskirts of towns - unfortunately, people need somewhere to live more than they need a football club. To answer your final point - it would probably never work. Why would people buy a shirt for a cause they probably A( Don't know about B( Don't care about C( Doesn't affect them directly or at all? Our plight is one of many in the country and town. And how are you paying for that?
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Post by John Anderson on Sept 11, 2016 13:38:27 GMT
Most of what you say makes sense and echoes a lot of what I have said over the years.
My point about the decline in Speedway is based on the sport as a whole and the Pirates success is part of the problem. Crowds are still healthy at do called "Wimborne Road" but attendances are down elsewhere. Greyhound racing is in it last throws as it was kept alive by subsidies from the Bookmakers when there were only horses and dogs to bet on. The bookies no longer need the dogs.
The Stadium development is complex but here is my take on it.
Stadia PLC/GI want to maximise the return on the Stadium site and Frankly none of the free sports can offer this. The problem is that they are leaseholders, not freeholders. PBC own the land and even if a planning application were to be granted, it could be stopped by PBC. The sweetners are 300-500 dwellings and a new stadium. Although PTFC are now close to the Pirates in terms of national coverage and prestige, locally the Pirates still reign.
Stadia realise there would be an outcry if the plans omitted a Stadium and so a new stadium for the Pirates is offered.
Now it does not take a genius to work out that a Stadium, 3-500 homes and a car park do not fit into the current site. Therefore at least part or maybe all the car park has to go.
There are knock on effects to this. The current car park is used by Poole Hospital Staff under an arrangement between Stadia and The Hospital. So any development affects more than just the current site. Near neighbours include the new Police/Fire HQ and the High School under whatever name it is now known.
At a conservative estimate 300-500 homes would be worth a minimum of £25,000,000 and probably closer to £50,000,00. Stadium turnover and profits are minuscule in comparison.
For PBC, 300-500 more homes is a small but significant part of the housing target. That plus Canford Park would almost hit the Borough's medium term house building target. I suspect both plans will eventually go through after amendments.
Of course Canford Park would solve most of the objections to Bearwood, it would be virtually a new town on the edge of the borough, with lots of people and much improved transport and infrastructure links. Sadly the plans include development of the proposed Bearwood Stadium site.
So the search goes in and there is at least one potential site. It took me a while to work it out and as I have no confirmation of any negotiations I will keep my own council for now.
In conclusion the Stadium is a dead duck. If the RWA were to sing a song to it it would be "You're not quacking any more"
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Post by scorpio on Sept 11, 2016 14:21:11 GMT
Talking to somebody who attended the last speedway meeting and they reckon about a 1,000 turned up, which if true suggests the sport has lost a lot of its appeal.They also mentioned that another stadium (Swindon I think) under the watch of Stadia UK has developed housing to such an extent around the stadium that washing lines are blowing into the pits. In essence Stadia UK are no more than property developers.
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Post by expat on Sept 11, 2016 22:13:54 GMT
How does PBC justify that it leases its publicly owned Stadium for a Sport openly denounced by many(not me,I do go to the dog racing in Fort Myers..shale track. water feature and Palm tree in the centre!1) About 200 punters apparently and its economic viability dependent on screening the races in the Far East!! What a way to treat your home town football club founded in the 1880s and currently resurgent...and I'm afraid that perhaps we will falter and lose because people (like Jack) think that there is gold at the end of the rainbow. somewhere out in the boondocks(Lord have mercy for a boy from down in the boondocks!) The Stadium is built, it could be operable for football AND other athletic sports given time and yes, money Back to the Future and lets get UNITED on this issue.. or even better lets have a VOTE. ..and if bodies like SOPM and Poole people do not recognise our heritage and history they are not worth any political consideration. PTFC are part of Poole and its infrastructure and that needs to be addressed.
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Post by John Anderson on Sept 12, 2016 15:26:14 GMT
The two developments at Canford Magna and The Stadium all but fulfil the Borough,s housing targets in two strokes. Approx 3000 households, at least 6000 people will be pleased at the developments. their votes would outweigh anything we (and the Pirates) could muster. Poole does not have enough land mass above water.
I would love to go back to the Wimborne Road site but it simply is not going to happen. If the Borough sold it freehold to Stadia UK they would get several times what we could amass to build a hole new stadium. Even if someone gave us the current stadium there would probably be more expense than upgrading Tatnam to get us to the next level. Remember there is no pitch there at the moment.
A fair few of the grounds we have visited this year are out of town and the clubs we saw were thriving. No issues with the neighbours. There are no realistic sites close to the centre of town.
Stadia UK were only interested in getting PTFC on board a Wimborne Road to try to show their caring sharing community credentials to the council. The arrangement with PTFC would have amounted to a ground share with the "Home Club" reaping most of the benefits.
So it is time to get real, house take precedence over football stadia. End Off.
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Post by expat on Sept 13, 2016 0:26:36 GMT
Please tell us about all the alternate sites that are available as of this moment for us to investigate, Are you seriously telling us that a Town Council would prefer a traffic inducing location out in the boonies. i thought elected bodies were supposed to be on board against traffic and air pollution and FOR schemes that encourage public transport and financial benefits for heritage locations like old Poole. I wasn't even aware(were others??) that Stadia UK had tried to get us on board at Wimborne Rd. Never read anything about on here.other than your most recent post.. and again the question is. How did AFC Wimbledon do it?? Land is very high value in London too.
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Post by Jack Tanner on Sept 13, 2016 10:56:30 GMT
Please tell us about all the alternate sites that are available as of this moment for us to investigate, Are you seriously telling us that a Town Council would prefer a traffic inducing location out in the boonies. i thought elected bodies were supposed to be on board against traffic and air pollution and FOR schemes that encourage public transport and financial benefits for heritage locations like old Poole. I wasn't even aware(were others??) that Stadia UK had tried to get us on board at Wimborne Rd. Never read anything about on here.other than your most recent post.. and again the question is. How did AFC Wimbledon do it?? Land is very high value in London too. Perhaps there are no alternate sites, but you're missing the point that multiple people have told you now - The Stadium is not currently viable, and as such, doesn't count. We can't do any thing with it. You still fail to realise it's not a simple case of moving in tomorrow with everything taking care of. It is NOT a football ground any more. It's current incarnation is designed to suit the needs of it's current tenants. We'd pour far more money into to bring up to FA and National League standards, without factoring in the massive cost of the land and demolishing what we couldn't use. If the council did help us financially, they wouldn't do so out of the love in their hearts - they'd be taking a certain % of matchday revenue or tickets, losing the club money in the long run. I know you don't live in Poole, but the area around the stadium is nowhere near "traffic free." On a matchday, it would be atrocious. If we ever reached the Football League, it would be basically gridlock on a Saturday Afternoon. We've even had doubts about the traffic and transport at Tatnam, that's how serious the council are about it. If we shared with the Speedway, you're talking about most weekdays that traffic would be awful on. So traffic outside of Poole's town centre is a plus point in comparing the two. The club have been in talks with everybody involved with the stadium for months, with fluctuating results and likeliness. This was revealed at a meeting for the supporters, whilst I understand you had no chance of making, was well documented by myself, Jack Amey and Andy Mitchell. Stadia UK may not factor us in as big as JohnA may suggest, but it certainly is a factor. They'd try any angle of approach to the council in order for a better future for themselves. AFC Wimbledon are a far bigger club than us with a bigger fan base, higher profile around the country, and play at a far higher level. They have it far easier than us in a search for their new home. Can't compare the two at all.
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Post by John Anderson on Sept 13, 2016 15:14:44 GMT
Google maps/earth or Apple maps are your friends. Look at how big Tatnam is and then try to put it into a free area that is not currently the subject of a planning application. There are not many left. Poole is one of the most overdeveloped boroughs in England and regarding land prices, only Mayfair is more expensive than Sandbanks, this is spreading to Lilliput and back into the main town. If you take the heathland out f the equation there is little left in the borough.
As I have said before, anyone can do the research but suitable sites could be available. Do the research.
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Post by expat on Sept 14, 2016 16:59:42 GMT
I have a queasy feeling that in two or three years time when we are playing in our own special ground in the outer universe we will regret NOT having stuck it out and negotiated,negotiated, negotiated on any plans suggested by PBC, Stadia UK. & unknown developers; but as this thread has exhaustively shown we are not UNITED on this topic and therefore I'm not going to get involved any further.
UNITED WE STAND AND DIVIDED WE FALL
UP THE TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWN!!!
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dom
Dolphin Forum Full Member
Posts: 128
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Post by dom on Sept 22, 2016 16:32:35 GMT
I see todays meeting went well?
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Post by expat on Sept 29, 2016 10:35:39 GMT
sorry, can't resist!! Echo News Item FA chief at Hamworthy County Ground to bless new 3G facility Is he coming up to Tatnam to inspect where a semi pro team representing a major population centre plays every other Saturday?
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Post by expat on Jan 27, 2017 20:41:00 GMT
Tatnam is dead!!
Long live the Black & Gold Stadium!!
Wait a minute isn,t that the colours of the Usurpers over at Turlin!!
although from memory doesn,t black and gold feature on the Town of poole Crest
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Post by parky on Feb 3, 2017 16:21:49 GMT
Blackgold stadium not Black & Gold!!!😉
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Post by BD on Feb 19, 2017 18:14:31 GMT
Blackgold stadium not Black & Gold!!!😉 Always be Tatnam to me
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Post by slepe12 on Feb 24, 2017 9:47:41 GMT
Blackgold is fine as long as we are able continue the wonderful progress we have experienced under the Tatnam banner.
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