|
Post by peterlep on Mar 20, 2010 21:46:04 GMT
Plenty has been written in the past on this forum on what is required to meet the standards at the next level.
1 thing I am unsure of is - does the standard of the pitch matter? Winchester have just come down from a higher league - but the standard of their pitch was dreadful.
Wimborne supposedly meet the standards to go up - but the slope on their pitch makes me wonder why they haven't been used for Ski Sunday!
We have a great pitch - credit to Chris K. Surely this is more important than a permanent wall round the ground?
The FA need to reconsider their rules I believe!
|
|
|
Post by expat on Mar 21, 2010 2:56:57 GMT
Great points peterlep. Tatnam is a great location with an excellent pitch.....but do we spend, or even are we allowed to spend ,any money to further improve the ground. Some of us are struggling with the apparent fact of NL life that we will be playing at the same level next year despite our success. Went through all the frustration and argument last year so not going to repeat it all again........bui it is FRUSTRATING!!.
|
|
|
Post by pooleforever689-ASH LEPPINGTON on Mar 21, 2010 11:19:24 GMT
Certainly the pitch is more inportant than the wall around the ground. Are pitch is probaly the best pitch in the wessex league.
|
|
|
Post by pooleforever689-ASH LEPPINGTON on Mar 21, 2010 11:38:58 GMT
Maybe next year if we get anough snow they could do an event at the stepe pitch. ;D
|
|
|
Post by John Anderson on Mar 21, 2010 12:03:16 GMT
I have been looking at this for that last week and I am a little surprised at the lack of information from the Board of Directors**. I realise that the behind the scenes negotiations over Canford Arena must stay that way for the time being but some things are clear (I think) or should be clarified in the next two weeks. Please note that the following is my slant on the rules and regulations, and with me being human, will contain some errors, omissions and the occasional total lie. However I publish it in as an honest attempt to clarify the "Ground" issue.
1. Tatnam is likely to be our ground, at least for the start of the next league campaign as any ground to be used, after promotion in 2010, has to be confirmed as meeting the criteria for that level by 31st March 2010, i.e. ten days time.(see below for Ground Sharing Info). As we are in the Wessex Premier League. The FA uses a confusing system of Ground Grading that means the Wessex Premier League is Step 5 on the National League System Pyramid and that Ground should conform to Ground Grade F. 2. The Southern League is Step 4 on the NLS and (it gets confusing around here to get a coffee or something and pay attention). To get promotion to step 4 you need to meet Ground Grade E at 31st March in the season that you apply* for promotion (i.e. this year). *Promotion is dependent on a number of things and - EVEN if you win your league AND
- The ground meets the Grade required for the league above
- The Directors have applied for promotion,
you may not get promotion as the number of places in Step 4 are usually lower than the number of teams applying and Points Per Game are included. Why is this? Well the Pyramid has a weight problem in that there are too many leagues at Step 5. www.mikeavery.co.uk/English%20League%20Structure%20or%20Pyramid.htm shows this in more detail. In addition, the Ground has to meet ground standard Grade D by the 31s March in the year following promotion (i.e. March 31st 2011 in this case). 3. Ground Sharing. The FA allows Ground sharing but NOT for the purposes of winning promotion. So even if we shared with the Cherries or even Manure, it is too late to use that as a springboard for promotion this year. I should also point out that not all leagues allow ground sharing. I have been unable to find out the regulations for the Southern League so I don't know their policy on ground sharing. Conclusions?We will continue at Tatnam for at least the start of the 2010/2011 season with either a variety of improvements to the ground OR a new ground before 31st march 2011. If the Southern League rules allow, and we do not apply for promotion next year, we could Ground Share if we could not get improvements to the Tatnam OR a new ground before 31st march 2011. If we are to have a new stadium at Canford Arena to achieve Grade D, it has to be meet at least Grade D by 31st march 2011.
|
|
|
Post by slepe13 on Mar 21, 2010 12:52:42 GMT
Not this old chestnut again.
I'd be quite happy to stay at Tatnam. No sense in kidding ourselves, the Council is not going to help. And our ground will not qualify for promotion. So what is there to talk about. We are where we are. Wessex Premier 2010/2011.
|
|
|
Post by expat on Mar 21, 2010 13:00:11 GMT
sorry,slepe but I thought that the object of winning your league (and probably two years in a row!!) was to get promoted!! SUCCESS SHOULD BE REWARDED UP THE TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWN!!
|
|
|
Post by Commercial Director on Mar 21, 2010 17:16:58 GMT
A couple of points here:
There is nothing to report as the deadline has not passed yet and we didn't want to provide false hope with each initiative. It has been well documented in the press that our efforts to secure a groundshare have so far been fruitless. The WPL does not allow groundshare, but that has not stopped us exploring the posssibility with all local clubs that meet step 4 criteria, including AFCB. We have also met with the Stadium Management and that is also a non-starter.
Tatnam can't be upgraded to meet the required standards. The Council and School will not allow it. The question has been asked AGAIN, as recently as this week.
Canford Park Arena will not be ready for the start of next season nor at any time during the coming season.
It is my opinion that the majority of fans, who remember groundsharing previously, do not want to move from Tatnam until a new home is a certainty. That was displayed by the number of negative comments when New Milton was still a possibility. Fans even said that they would prefer another season in the WPL than take promotion on the basis of Grounshare without a permanent home to go to.
As one of the Directors who knows the efforts, meetings, communications and activities that happen behind the scenes and often 7 days a week, I can confirm that no stone has been unturned. Every idea and suggestion that comes up on this forum has already been explored by the BOD. We have applied for promotion and are giving it our best shot, but if at the end of the day it is beyond us, then we will have to do a treble of WPL Championships and then go to CPA for Southern League Football.
|
|
|
Post by RobTheShirt on Mar 21, 2010 17:26:40 GMT
Tatnam can't be upgraded to meet the required standards. The Council and School will not allow it. The question has been asked AGAIN, as recently as this week. I take it that I don't now need to leave a hole in my diary for a working party over the next 10 days?
|
|
|
Post by m3dolphin on Mar 21, 2010 17:46:18 GMT
I have absolutely no doubts about the amount of effort being put in by the club's officials at trying to achieve a new home, however I hope that local politicians haven't forgotten about PTFC after all the noise they made after the Branksome refusal.
'Leisure' is a very important part of any community and Football, being a national pass time, plays or can play a very important role in lifting and entertaining its community. With a united effort between the council and local politicians helping the club I'm sure the task would be so much easier and hugely beneficial to the town of Poole. Let's hope PTFC haven't been forgotten by Mr Eades and Co.
|
|
llhoover
Dolphin Forum Junior Member
Posts: 55
|
Post by llhoover on Mar 21, 2010 21:18:48 GMT
Plenty has been written in the past on this forum on what is required to meet the standards at the next level. 1 thing I am unsure of is - does the standard of the pitch matter? Winchester have just come down from a higher league - but the standard of their pitch was dreadful. Wimborne supposedly meet the standards to go up - but the slope on their pitch makes me wonder why they haven't been used for Ski Sunday! We have a great pitch - credit to Chris K. Surely this is more important than a permanent wall round the ground? The FA need to reconsider their rules I believe! been thinking the same for a few years about the state of the pitches. especially the ones the youth teams play on in dorset. all they seem to be worried about is the correct sizing of the pitch and the goals. maybe take a look at the ptiches down whitecliff with the golf bunkers infront of goal. having seen pitches on side of hills with long grass as people have commented about the grass being a bit longer to stop the ball rolling down the hill.sorry if its of topic but i fully agree about the state of the pitch being important.
|
|
|
Post by poolelaglandst on Mar 21, 2010 21:39:42 GMT
What i dont get is why cant we,with the councils help after they shafted us,why cant we build a wall round the Tatnum pitch in the summer school holidays,the school wont be using it then,or when they go back in September,as we would be back there playing football anyway,so let us put a wall up,with the condition we take it down when the new ground is up and running. Why is that such a biggie,surely that is an easy option for everyone,im sure between the loyal 200 of us that are regular supporters we will have enough people to do the work free of charge,i am more than happy to muck in as im sure many others would be. Id love to know the reason the school or the council wont allow that,they wont be using it then anyway,im sure we can put it right when we leave,to me its the only way we have letf of going up,the council owe it to us and the people of Poole.
|
|
towncrier
Dolphin Forum Full Member
Posts: 180
|
Post by towncrier on Mar 21, 2010 22:37:43 GMT
Have to agree with poolelaglandst: my understanding is that the school have really benefited with PTFC being part of their community and I know lots of people associated with the school who say the same. I would have thought with the ambition everyone has amply demonstrated, some accommodation with Poole Education Authority, The school Governors and Poole Planning Authority that a compromise position could be achieved? What I mean is that the requirements for ground grading are allowed to be put in place with an agreement that when a permanent home is found the status quo is restored?
I am also quite sure the B.O.D. have exhausted all possibilities practically, given a general election is upon us perhaps an aspiring MP could make a name for themselves and broker a deal? Ohh no that might be sensible, I will get my coat ....
|
|
|
Post by expat on Mar 21, 2010 23:18:18 GMT
;D ;D ; ;D Poolelaglandstreet and towncrier....thank you for a couple of down to earth points of view, I say this in the most positive way and knowing that we are all PTFC supporters............. "We are going to keep the pressure on the FA, Poole Council and yes,those of you in the boardroom, to ensure that our team's valiant efforts over the past two seasons DOES NOT GO UNREWARDED!!" With all due respect if we finish ahead of WXXXXXXE and see them promoted you can be sure that questions will rightly be asked. ANSWERS:not "there is a lot we can't tell you" please!! We are here to help PTFC but settling for the WPL again next year ain't gonna cut it!!
UP THE TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWN!!
|
|
|
Post by sterteroad on Mar 22, 2010 10:50:22 GMT
Have to agree with poolelaglandst: my understanding is that the school have really benefited with PTFC being part of their community and I know lots of people associated with the school who say the same. I would have thought with the ambition everyone has amply demonstrated, some accommodation with Poole Education Authority, The school Governors and Poole Planning Authority that a compromise position could be achieved? What I mean is that the requirements for ground grading are allowed to be put in place with an agreement that when a permanent home is found the status quo is restored? I am also quite sure the B.O.D. have exhausted all possibilities practically, given a general election is upon us perhaps an aspiring MP could make a name for themselves and broker a deal? Ohh no that might be sensible, I will get my coat .... Considering one of the prospective Candidates was openly hostile to us........ Unfortunately all politicians in this area are only interested if you are over a certain age or go to the vets. Prove me wrong.
|
|
|
Post by John Anderson on Mar 22, 2010 12:23:32 GMT
Firstly I would like to thank the CD for his response on behalf of the BOD. I would also say that the following is written with a constructive frame of mind, with the best interests of PTFC in mind.
Most of the fans trust the current BOD, but like all fans we want and need to know more about the current state of play (no pun intended). This is no Green and Yellow revolution just a request for more information and direction as to how we can help.
A football club is, by its nature, schizophrenic. It is a much loved and supported institution by its fans but (in most cases) it is also a limited company as defined by law. The directors have a legal duty to do their best for the "company" and this may mean that they cannot put everything into the public domain.
Unlike other companies though, in most cases Directors of football clubs are also fans. It is important realise the dilemma that all the Directors face in doing the job properly but also keeping the fans onside. This means that we, as fans, cannot be privvy to everything and have to keep the faith. So without further ado:
For some years the plan was to move to Branksome Rec but as we all know that was surprisingly rejected only a few months ago. It does not matter now whether it was the right or wrong plan or the wrong decision. However it seems that there was no plan B (Hey M&S have no plans B so this is not a criticism).
I think we all have to accept that yet again, the council has not helped our cause (yes I am choosing my words carefully). We now have to look at how we, as individuals and organised supporters, interact with our elected representatives. I for one will be asking, in writing about their views on the current situation. I will post my letter on the forum later for anyone to use as a template if they so desire.
We also have to ask for a little more information from the directors as to future plans. So what do we know and what do we need to know from our the Council, and the Directors of the club?
Questions for the BOD
Has a grading inspection been done, or is one planned this season at Tatnam?
Assuming that a Grading Inspection has been done or is planned this season at Tatnam, what are the chances of success?
What improvements, at Tatnam, are the School and the Council opposing and why?
It is implicit in FA rules that Ground Sharing cannot be used in order to gain promotion ( i.e. it has to be in place well before promotion becomes a possibility). Is there any indication that this rule could be relaxed this year?
Is the plan to push for a third championship in the WPL sharing a ground that is already graded D, while a new stadium is under construction?
Canford Park Arena is being pursued as a long term option. What is a realistic time scale for CPA to be a functional Grade D ground? The CD says not next year so can we assume the 2011/2012 Season?
Maybe this is why the Ground Share option is always to the fore.
Is there a Plan B if CPA falls through?
Is there anything else that we, as fans, can do to help the BOD?
My final comment (for now).
We would all be disappointed, as fans, if promotion were to be cruelly denied again. It does however seem the most likely outcome and if it is, we must plan for the future.
It would be hard to get three championships in a row but it is achievable. After the collapse of the Branksome Rec plans, we have to give the BOD some time to regroup.
It is clearly the Ground that is holding us back and for next season this must be the top (if not the only) priority. With the right ground, second place can get you promoted. Without the right ground, to quote The Byrds "You Ain't Goin' Nowhere".
COYD
|
|
|
Post by sterteroad on Mar 22, 2010 14:19:38 GMT
"I think we all have to accept that yet again, the council has not helped our cause (yes I am choosing my words carefully). We now have to look at how we, as individuals and organised supporters, interact with our elected representatives. I for one will be asking, in writing about their views on the current situation. I will post my letter on the forum later for anyone to use as a template if they so desire." I think this is a great idea, will be interesting for us all to see what our politicians have to say, and will those who promised support post "Wreck" live up to their promises of support? One of my local councillors abruptly changed the subject when I broached it recently.
|
|
|
Post by Commercial Director on Mar 23, 2010 9:36:46 GMT
Response to Chienmort:
My response before and this one, are not on behalf of the BOD, just a response from a Member of the Board, that is aware of the current state of play.
I can assure all that the BOD were fans first, and Directors after. We all want the same as you, but are armed with more information surrounding the club than most fans.
There was a Plan B to Branksome Rec, but based on the information available at the time the Board took the decision to pursue the Rec to a conclusion. Had we been openly working on a Plan B, do you think that BR would have gone as far as it did? Up to one week before the decision, EVERYONE including BRAG thought we had it won. In hindsight, things look different, but I was part of that decision and stand by it today.
Grading for this season has not been carried out. Right now there is no point, we know we will fail, so why waste time and money. The area where we fail is not having a permanent wall within 15m of the touchline closest to the school. Last season we proposed Harras Fencing, which would be removed between games. The FA did not deem this permanent. The School will not allow this to be permanently fenced off and oppose the idea of a solid fence bordering a school playfield, not knowing who could be behind it etc.
Had we been successful with a groundshare, we could have been promoted at the end of this season. New Milton was close but fell through, due to their Town Council. In truth not many fans would have travelled there frequently to watch home games, it is just too far. Can you imagine Wimborne allowing us to share, so we can go up and them not? Grounshare is not likely to happen, so consider that we are at Tatnam again next season.
The plan is to push for a third WPL championship, whilst hopefully starting work on CPA, which will be build beyond grade D and with provision to be suitable with modular changes to make the conference if necessary.
Let's not talk about Plan C and possible failure of CPA until we have at least given it a good shot. We have in recent weeks explored and ruled out 5 or 6 other possibilities in the Borough in conjunction with the council. This strengthens our position at CPA. Expectations should be ralistic and there is no way CPA will be ready for us to play at during the coming season.
Now you ask what you can do to help the BOD - Yes plenty! If CPA is to become a reality it will require a huge fundraising effort, even bigger then BR, as will potentially winning the WPL three times. Buy Golden Goal tickets, buy a programme, buy a burger, cup of tea, celebrate with a beer after the game, buy Merchandise, Join the Supporters Club, Join the 100 Club, Sign up to easyfundraising, use easysearch exclusively when searching the internet, buy a season ticket for next season, attend the fundraising concert on 10th April, hand in your old mobile phones. If you can do all of those, plus help errect the cunning plan and put it down after the game, then there is nothing more we can ask of you at this time, other than keep the faith.
|
|
|
Post by slepe12 on Mar 23, 2010 10:54:07 GMT
I think that pretty well covers it CD. I don't think there can be any doubt now of the position of the club for next season, and I have to say it is a realistic one. As you rightly say we are all disappointed to not be promoted. But I much prefer to build a secure future on solid foundations, rather than chase a dream that eventually turns into a nightmare. It just confirms the thoughts of the majority of supporters that the club is in very safe hands. The BOD has made every effort to secure promotion in a sensible way, without selling our soul and paying the price later. We have seen what that can do to even higher placed clubs than ourselves. In answer to your requests for help, I have decided to purchase a season ticket for next season and would like to join the Supporters club when appropriate. Promoted or not, Poole Town is clearly the one of the premier non league teams in the south of England. And just like cream will always rise to the top. COYD.
|
|
|
Post by sterteroad on Mar 23, 2010 11:00:10 GMT
I know how much work goes into the Club and is going on for the future. I will buy my season ticket for next season and renew my Supporters Club Memebership, as well as do all the other fundraising activities the Club has. Better to be debt free and have a solid base at CA than owe HMRC and go bust chasing an unrealistic dream.
|
|
|
Post by dave2 on Mar 23, 2010 11:37:21 GMT
I have just found this cutting from the 'Poole Advertiser' dated 9 February 1997! Not much progress yet!! Click on the photo to enlarge and read. Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by Commercial Director on Mar 23, 2010 11:41:06 GMT
Regarding Season Tickets - These will not be on sale until we know how many teams make up the league in which we play next season, hence we will then know how many home league games we will play. I can however start a list of those interested in pledging their support to PTFC and as well as putting my own name down (Yes I paid for a ST this season and will do again), will add slepe and sterte.
Supporters Club Membership is however available immediately. If you buy membership now at £10, it will run until the end of the coming season and will entitle you to a whole host of discounts including £5 off a replica shirt, reduced entry for Supporters Club events, such as the concert on 10th, end of season presentation dinner and an early season social that we are planning. If you are alreay a member, then normally your Membership would have been up for renewal in January, but that has already been extended until the end of this season. Show your support NOW and pay your £10 early to get your new card valid until the end of next season.
|
|
|
Post by expat on Mar 23, 2010 12:12:08 GMT
.........not really!! apart from the CA factor coming into the equation we heard these very same arguments last year. From my very long distance perspective i do salute you guys for putting such a brave face on this two years in a row!! Let's be realistic. 1. What are the odds of us winning the WPL X3 2. What are the odds of us keeping our nucleus of top players 3. What are the odds of keeping our mgt team intact 4. What are the odds of getting better attendances at an out of town location like CA This is one heck of a situation to come up as our team tries to go BACK TO BACK, are we so fiscally conservative that we are sytstemically aiming low?? Sorry, I am sticking with my mantra: SUCCESS MUST BE REWARDED or as we have learned NOTHING VENTURED V NOTHING GAINED UP THE TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWN!!
|
|
|
Post by Commercial Director on Mar 23, 2010 12:38:54 GMT
1. Probably as low as 4-1, you can phone Jem Racing and ask them if you like. 2. Pretty good considering we would lose some by going up and them not wanting the travel. We only lost one last season and in my opinion we got an excellent replacement. 3. Fantastic. Tommy is 100% aware of the situation and is going nowhere. 4. New ground, higher level of football and walking distance to the largest conurbation of 13-18 year olds in the Borough - Why not?
Expat, you are a passionate supporter from afar, but those local, that go to almost every game, whilst disappointed, are supportive.
If you want to help then please use easysearch, and trust in us to do the right thing for the long term future of this club.
|
|
|
Post by Bay Dolphin on Mar 23, 2010 13:09:12 GMT
Just got back from grandson duty.
Some good posts here as there were last year when we were all so disappointed but accepting of the difficulties and grateful for all the hard work the BOD put in and continue to put in.
I'm "a passionate supporter from afar" as well. Also a member of the supporters club, 100 Club, sponsor of players kit, stand seat sponsor, buyer of replica shirts, purchaser of merchandise and attendee at as many games as I can afford the time and money to get to each season.
Maybe it's being "exiles" that makes it more frustrating or maybe it's our ages but I'm with expat.
|
|
|
Post by poolelaglandst on Mar 23, 2010 13:30:17 GMT
I too would like us to go up,but to be honest its too late now,i think CD covered everything superbly and answered all my little questions. Although i did find the answer re the school not wanting a wall around the pitch due to the fact they wouldnt know who was behind there!!! Do schools not have walls behind them then,for me this was our only realistic way of gaining promotion,and struggle with that reason. But i also think looking forward to Conferance football at the least is a bit far fetched,we are realisically a Southern League team,look at Wemouth for instance. I admire Expats enthusiasm but he doesnt see first hand what we do,and reading about it isnt the same as living it.If we did go up we`d have no more derbies,at least in the WPL we have more local games[Im looking on the bright side there]. I do wonder how many would go to Canford Areana though,and aiming at the local people there is a little hard to take for me,it should be the local people of Poole we should be attracting,but then i guess thats life,I doubt some of the old boys who wonder over to watch us will no longer be able to get there.
|
|
|
Post by John Anderson on Mar 23, 2010 16:33:33 GMT
I would like to personally thank the CD for responding so honestly and comprehensively and slepe12 for his realistic response.
I will now briefly respond to the CDs Points.
Branksome. I think that the BOD did all that was asked and more.
Grading. Again I believe that it was correct NOT to go for for a grading inspection. It would be like throwing money away.
Groundshare. I don't think this was really an option but it had to be investigated.
The Plan. Is I believe realistic. Third WPL title is a tall order (especially when there is still all to play for this year). However if you look at Mike Avery's site then Step 3 is our "natural" position. This is based on attendances and with the right ground and the right stadium, Conference is achievable.
Canford Park Arena. This looks and feels right to me. Yes it is out of town BUT when it is ready I am sure that we could piggy back on to the Council's Care Share Scheme (Yes this is a joke) to ensure that everyone who wants to go can go.
What can I do? I have also put my name down for both the supporters club and a season ticket for next year and investigating all your other suggestions.
Finally I would like to thank CD and all the BOD for their efforts to date.
COYD
|
|
|
Post by sturmarsh1 on Mar 25, 2010 18:08:38 GMT
Sorry to come in at the end of this but would it be possible to groundshare with Swanage for 1 season.
|
|
|
Post by rob bayston on Mar 25, 2010 19:57:22 GMT
Every Poss ground share was looked at incl Swanage which would need to much doing to it to achieve the appropriate grading
|
|
|
Post by Bay Dolphin on Mar 25, 2010 21:40:12 GMT
Thanks JohnA for a measured and calm summation. Whilst I appreciate that there are probably very cogent reasons not to reveal the situatiion prematurely, we just need to know when Canford will become a reality now.
|
|